Author Topic: AT-44  (Read 19914 times)

Gurth

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #75 on: Monday, 13 December 2010, 19:42:56 »
It's the impression I get from your post :) You seem to be saying that you don't think anyone should use someone else's intellectual property for what they make themselves.
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supercollider

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #76 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 09:36:46 »
No, specifically that one has to make a moral call about how close to the knuckle to cut with regards leeching from the inspiration. There's a lot of factors to consider in any such situation, and it would often be one person's view against another, but in this situation, changing the title of the your directly competing product by ONE DIGIT, then calling the inspiration product shit, and saying that the inspiration product's creators are idiots, is a dickish thing to do.

Here comes another analogy. Would you be happy for me to say Nintendo are a bunch of morons, with no idea how to write a computer game, and that Super Mario 64 was the biggest bag of wank ever, then say I'm releasing a free of charge computer game called Super Mario 65, with mario and the princes and bowser and yoshi et al? But where they have to run around collecting rings?

Take the title of this Forum. It's called AT-43 & Confrontation. If I was suggesting that no one should use ANY IP, then this would be a no no. But as I said, it has to be based on the specific situation. Here, if the forum was called THE OFFICIAL RACKHAM AT43 AND CONFRONTATION FORUM, it'd be taking the piss. This is because you are not releasing a competing product, but a complementary product. One could say that it competes with the real Rackham forum (when it was up), but then the official forum was not a money making exercise, and specifically, this forum was set up once it was announced that the official forum was going away. Have we been told that we may no longer use the AT43 rules, necessitating the release of AT40k?
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wolflord_ian

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #77 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 18:37:46 »
My God, this is getting so melodramatic...  Why are we wasting so much time on arguing about this point?  Who cares what it was called?  There was a newsletter on tabletopgamingnews that stated at at-01 and was working its way up. Is that going to be attacked and demonize when they get to at-43?  For people who have no interest in making at-44 better, why not just leave this part of the forum alone?  I don't like some games, but I don't go to their forums and trash them all over the place.  I just leave them alone and focus on the things I do like.  Surely, people's time is better spent elsewhere, rather than on a forum dedicated to a game they dislike.  

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree here.  I don't recall anyone calling AT-43's creators idiots and the product shit.  People are trying to demonize AT-44 and its creators and make it seem like they said things that they did not.  I recall Az saying that he felt at-44 was more balanced than at-43, and that is his opinion.  So what?  Telling people that he did things that he did not and is being dickish for doing the things that he never did is in itself not a very respectful move.  I think its called slander or something like that.  (But please don't go into semantics and call up the dictionary about the term slander to push this thread even further off track).

As for calling AT-44, At-40K, please stop it.  I'm sure you think its cute and feel proud of reducing someone else's hard work (or the many people who helped create it) into a mild comparison and catch phrase, but it isn't helping at all.  Many of us who helped with this product have never played 40k or haven't in many many years.  If there happens to be a lot of similarities to 40k, then it was not intentional.  We just want to make AT-44 as fun and balanced as possible.  Many games share similar rules because people like them.  It happens and not just to and from 40k.  Sure some things have changed from at-43, but that is how it goes.  Some pretty major things changed from at-43 and the new V2 that RE was working on as well.  

Lastly, please do not take any of this personally.  I do not mean to insult or imply things here, but I am calling it like I see it.  I try and be as civil as possible on forums, but I'll not stand by and watch the hard work of others be trashed by people who don't care about helping improve it.  I want this thread to get back on track, and that track is how to make at-44 as good as it can be.  The track is not to dismiss it as a 40k clone, find a new name for it, derail it with semantics, scare other players away from commenting for fear of being flamed, or make fun of the product.  

I greatly value everyone's observations and opinions and would love suggestions for how to make AT-44 better.  If people want to comment here, then let's try and be constructive and not destructive.  Feel free to call out things you think are broken on their own right, but there is no need to call it broken just because another game did it.  

I'm going back through this thread and compiling what people dislike or want to change in at-44 and will be posting it soon.  If I have misunderstood any of it, feel free to correct me.  (in a nice way preferably)
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Floris

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #78 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 18:47:57 »
Quote from: "wolflord_ian"
I want this thread to get back on track, and that track is how to make at-44 as good as it can be.  The track is not to dismiss it as a 40k clone, find a new name for it, derail it with semantics, scare other players away from commenting for fear of being flamed, or make fun of the product.  

I greatly value everyone's observations and opinions and would love suggestions for how to make AT-44 better.  If people want to comment here, then let's try and be constructive and not destructive.

Isn't finding a better name part of making the game better?

As it stands the name implies it is the next version of AT-43 and clearly that is not the case. This is misleading and for that reason it needs a better name.

Example:
I have been working on a spaceship game that uses the AT-43 game mechanics but instead of calling it AT-43 "something" it will be a new name with the following subtitle: ""Space Combat Set In The AT-43 Universe".
That way I make it clear the game has connections to AT-43 but I'm not pretending it is official.
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IvanTT

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #79 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 20:05:47 »
Oh good lord lets get our knickers in a twist over what it's called. Obviously some you feel threatened by this for some reason otherwise you'd not bother commenting. Give up guys the whole game system is dead as a product now there is only the hangers on like ourselves so I really don't think anyone is stepping where anyone in with any clout at all would care. The fact that there are just over 100 members of this forum so tell you guys how dead the game actually is.  As far as chasing folks away I for one am done with the bickering on the site and I'm going back to the Google site to talk about this if I even bother. Have a great life SC and Floris. Don't choke to death on your egos...
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Floris

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #80 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 20:45:36 »
Quote from: "IvanTT"
As far as chasing folks away I for one am done with the bickering on the site and I'm going back to the Google site to talk about this if I even bother. Have a great life SC and Floris. Don't choke to death on your egos...

wow! I even explained why I think the name could do with changing. I guess it is true that the only feedback allowed is positive feedback (great way to improve a game).

But fair enough, i'll stay away from this topic if that helps.
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azoxystrobin

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #81 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 20:54:17 »
I did say in a post a long time ago that even the name was work in progress and that all suggestions were welcome.

So suggest away.
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Floris

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #82 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 21:13:42 »
Quote from: "azoxystrobin"
I did say in a post a long time ago that even the name was work in progress and that all suggestions were welcome.

So suggest away.


All Out War

Battlefield Tactics

Full Conflict

Three names that sound cool (well I think they do anyway  :)  )
Then you can have a subtitle with AT-43 in it. Something like "Battles in the universe of AT-43" or "Fan Made Warfare In AT-43"

Then you could write a paragraph long bit of text explaining that it is the year AT-44 and all sides have had to adapt and changed tactics and weaponry.
This means that the background for each of the armies remains intact as you are not re-writting that just writing the next chapter of the conflict.
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azoxystrobin

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #83 on: Tuesday, 14 December 2010, 23:13:41 »
After Trauma: Total War
gives a feeling of '"I've seen that somewhere before"

AT-43 v2
It hasn't been used yet, and it's not like anyone else is going to!
Hmmm it also states quite clearly that it isn't at43, but another version of it.
That's actually pretty good !

I would have prefered something that implies moving forward or progress rather than stagnation though.
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royaljayhawk

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #84 on: Wednesday, 15 December 2010, 18:30:36 »
You can see how Rackham dealt with a different game using the same universe and minis in AT-43 Tactics. I think something like that gives a nice nod to the original, while not giving the impression that is the same system just updated to v2. You see the same type of naming conventions in Video Game mods (IE: Portal: Unity, Battlefield 2: Project Reality, Call of Heroes: Blitzkrieg, Half-life: Distortion, etc...). What if the name was AT-43 Future Warfare, or AT-43 Heavy Metal, or something along those lines. If a logo was developed for it, for instance, the AT-43 could be fairly small while the name of the game system is larger.
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morgan

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #85 on: Wednesday, 19 January 2011, 12:51:18 »
Quote from: "Floris"

Then you could write a paragraph long bit of text explaining that it is the year AT-44 and all sides have had to adapt and changed tactics and weaponry.
This means that the background for each of the armies remains intact as you are not re-writting that just writing the next chapter of the conflict.

Can you give me some tactics about weaponry?
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Rosco

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #86 on: Monday, 14 July 2014, 22:49:59 »
Please maybe someone may send me roles files? Megaupload is not working and I don't make a yahoo account to watch filel

Gurth

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #87 on: Tuesday, 15 July 2014, 10:43:08 »
The latest (read: last) version only exists, to the best of my knowledge, on my hard drive and I suppose Azoxystrobin’s — unless he’s deleted them or gave them to someone else without my knowledge, of course. However, as explained here, I’m not sure I could share them with the rest of the world, since the rights to them don’t belong only to me.

In any case, the rules as they are, aren’t 100% finished and not in a state I’d want to share anyway except with people serious about playtesting them. I’ve been working on other things for the last year and a half or so that have much greater priority for me than AT-44, though — so chances are low that I’ll get round to doing things with that any time soon …
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Rosco

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #88 on: Tuesday, 15 July 2014, 22:14:25 »
Ok
I hope it will not become a dead project
Let me know

Gurth

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #89 on: Wednesday, 16 July 2014, 19:15:44 »
If I’m honest, it’s been a dead project for about a year and a half now …
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hatamoto

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #90 on: Wednesday, 16 July 2014, 21:27:01 »
I have a version of AT-44 that got shared on the official yahoo group, cant remember the date on it though ... ill check when i get back home on sunday. Among a few things it has the ability for infantry to take cover in the open by laying down etc. (5+ save)

Ender The Xenocide

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #91 on: Thursday, 17 July 2014, 02:24:10 »
Let it die... just let it die.... mmm sweet death  ;D

Gurth

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Re: AT-44
« Reply #92 on: Thursday, 17 July 2014, 11:54:03 »
I’ve just checked, and the last version I can definitely share is 1.8.2, from 25 January 2012. I’ve turned that into a PDF and have uploaded it to here.

Some of the things you may notice when viewing the file are that parts are blue; these are the latest changes made (since we used the “track changes” feature of our word processors, so it’d be clear what the other person had modified since the last version. Another is that we (I, actually :)) created AT-43 style icons that aren’t the same as Rackham’s, but shouldn’t prove too much of a challenge to mentally convert. I made these as a font so they could be easily incorporated into anything we intended to make, as well as neatly scale to any size required — unlike Rackham’s bitmapped icons.
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